Satanic Hedonism VS. Recreational drug abuse

For the record, i have to confess that i am active in several forums.
And this was a recent discussion between myself and someone who (at least i think) should know better:

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Infernal Greetings Skrivarn.

I just wanted to point out a couple things about "LaVey's book "Satan Speaks"

LaVey wasn't anti-hedonistic -he did like to drink. He says on page 107 in Satan Speaks "Sound Retreat" ... "He must live as though there were no clocks, no calendars, and subsequently, no appointments to be met. He must withdraw himself from the affairs and measurements of men, and become as hedonistic as the staunchest moralist (or faddist) is not. It is humanity that will surely kill him if allowed"- LaVey

Also the introduction is by Reverend Marylin Manson who is quite open about his hedonistic lifestyle and excessive drug use.

What is your definition of hedonism and are you also anti- alcohol- tabacco- caffeine?

What's your view on the new craze with anti-depressants?? that drug epidemic has half of Americans HOOKED.

Hail Satan!

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My reply:

Hello ********,

"Hedonism" literally means regarding pleasure as a proper motive. The best explaination of what Dr. LaVey meant by this is probably his essay THE WORLD'S MOST POWERFUL RELIGION.

There are many sources of pleasure.

From the Satanic point of view, pleasure should be considered in contrast to self-destruction and compulsion.

It's really that simple.

I agree strongly with the passage you quote from Dr. LaVey, and I live by it. I think I have an appointment sometime next October, but I will probably postpone and reschedule that at least three times because I'll forget about it by then and it will creep up on me. I avoid obligations to other people like the plague, and live to live "free fall" in my own world, in my own time. But without self-medicating. I don't see that a neccesary or prerequisite.

Lets not equivocate on the "drug" issue. Anyone with an iota of intelligence knows there is an important difference in the effects of, say, Heroin, Acid, and say Pot.

Likewise, there is a substantial difference in the effects of, say Pot and Coffee.

For the record, I drink and smoke, even socially, because I like it. I do also drink coffee on a daily basis.

In terms of psychological effect, I will concede that pot is not as bad as alcohol, but smoking it is as bad or worse for you than cigarrettes. Really, if all the people who have drinking problems sat at home and ate marijuana cookies or hash brownies, they and the world would be better off, but nothing that rational is going to happen in our lifetime.

Plus it is illegal, and in that grey area of "illegal but tolerated" just enough to insure that it is a common and widespread pretext for police intervention in peoples lives. I understand you are against systems of control very much. Why would you buy into an institution (drug counterculture) that was probably invented to be a reason to fuck with you?

Even if it were legal, it has decades of idiotic cultural baggage. Drug counterculture is the most mindless herd phenomenon since religion - why would any Satanist, or the Church of Satan for that matter, want to be associated with such a collective of idiotic losers?

....also, not to "quote scripture," but Dr. LaVey repeatedly expressed his contempt for these kinds of subcultures in no uncertain terms, assuming we both concede his opinion bears on matters pertinent to Satanism.

Marilyn Manson is definately not the brightest bulb in the pack. He says and does a lot of incredibly stupid things that contradict what Dr. LaVey was about. He has also publically backpeddled regarding his involvement with the Church of Satan (on the Bill O'Reilly show), which to me places him in the category of people who were siding up to Dr. LaVey for "noteriety by association" claiming to be all about the philosophy, yet disparaging Dr. LaVey's legacy after he passed away. If they were really so devoted to Dr. LaVey, they would not have shit on his memory. Personally I think his affiliation should be revoked.

But that flies over the head of anyone who blindly sucks up to people because they are "famous."

I think the trend toward "mood drugs" is disgusting, but I guess it keeps people showing up to work on time, and diverts them from confronting the existential horrors of their own meaningless existence that would otherwise drive them to overt self-destruction.

I'm all for confronting and training your inner demons, turning liabilities into advantages, instead of medicating into oblivion.

People who seek escape in mind-altering drugs should ask themselves why their predominant frame of mind is so shitty that they need to escape. Some people have no choice, they are damaged goods and are probably better off in self-medicated oblivion. Unfortunately they usually descend into rampant destructive compulsion that makes a disaster of the world around them.

There is a difference between being disfunctional and being "Alien" in the Satanic sense of the term. One is "unter", the latter is "uber", in relation to the common stream of human waste.

I am open to intelligent discussion/debate on these topics.

Hail!